IMMERSED BAPTIZE OR NOT?

Baptize is origin from 'Baptizio' which mean immersing/ deepening/ dipping. Just I've ever written in article ' Traditional Church vs. Charismatic Church' that recently many people from traditional church moves to Pentecost/ charismatic church.

The problem is in Pentecost/ charismatic church the people are asked to be 'rebaptized' with reasons that a sprinkle baptizing they had before is not valid/ legal. According to my opinion it is not a problem if ones would like to rebaptism, it is their own decision/ will.

The question is sprinkle baptize is valid or not?

Oo ... just to let you know, the author had done sprinkle baptized, never do immersing/deepening baptize yet, but to eat Pempek Palembang Kapal Selam (Indonesia food) yes I often do so.

Even there is a charismatic church (which is be on top right now) fame with its Holy Communion and Anointing Oil, ask their community to be rebaptized, doesn't care the people comes from famous traditional church or Pentecost.

According to this top church, the baptism that people had its not valid, because it's not been lead by the holy and sacred priest. Because of this reason/ suggestion, many people come in great numbers to be rebaptized which is held in a hotel in North Jakarta.

The author had come for several times to see the baptizing occasion while taking other people who would like to be baptized. The difference is so obvious, brother. Many people has been released from evil spirit, many people are healed from their illness. (Also there's one who goes back/ home to the Father a couple of days after been baptized).

But what the author saw there it wasn't the real baptize, it's only a releasing and healing event which is done in the water. Although some people are still been tied (the Demons are still inside them after following the baptizing).

Well, it seems that this charismatic church blends/mixes among baptizing, releasing and healing. But just let it go. Many people are released and healed. Let's go back to the core problem, ok?

The verse in the Bible says Mat 28:19

"Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them
in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,"

The order is very clear. For the people who repent & believe Jesus are asked to be baptized. If we see the origin of the baptism should be done in a place with a lot of water, but don't know why in traditional church Baptism only done by sprinkling.

Maybe they want to be thrifty with water? Or is it difficult to find a place with a lot of water? Or it has been a tradition or ....... something else, I don't know. What is clear the baptism sprinkle with water?

But there is one thing we should remember when we had been baptized truly the priest said a sacred word i.e.: 'baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit'. Do you understand what does it mean?

Maybe the small amount of water is incompatible with the water utilizing rule in baptizing. What does it mean? But the sacred value is testified / passes the examination. Why I say so?
When the priest says' baptize them in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit' means that Heaven baptize the person.

Heaven claimed that the person is valid belongs to Heaven. Then the angels stamp the person with "Heaven Stamp". This is what has happened in the spirit realm, when someone is baptized by a priest. So it doesn't depend to how the character of the priest is.

Because when someone is baptized that means the Heaven baptized the person not the priest. God uses the priest as a tool.

Well, same like this, if someone is appointed/ promoted by the President's decision letter/decree to be posted as let's say ... 'First Key Position Official', but the one who inaugurate the person is the Vice President. That doesn't mean that the Vice President is become the 'First Key Position Official'.

The Vice President only helps the President to legalize the person become 'First Key Position Official’ and the one who appoint / promote it is the President. So, it doesn't matter if at that time the Vice President gets scabies (skin disease) means the official who is promoted is not get scabies, too.

Or, if the Vice President is a corruptor then the new officer who just been promoted is also a corruptor? No brother, the official is just like the original official. So does the priest who baptizes the new born person.

About whether the sprinkle baptizes valid or not the author thinks simply. Let's say at the most Heaven says it's so stingy in water usage. So when someone is baptized means that he/ she is signed by Heaven to belong to Him.

Well, the special rights as children of God due to start/valid. For example : The Devil wants to bother human, he must ask permission to the Father.
So when someone is baptized means that he/ she is signed by Heaven to belong to Him.

Read this verse what Peter says in

1 Pet 3:21
"which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

Actually, the most important as a Christian is how we live in truth before Him, obey His will, listen to His voice, become Jesus follower, and try to reach holiness (live in holiness), pay tithes. Not the thing that we are baptized with a small amount or a lot of water.

Now I'm asking you, Moses, Elijah, David, Samuel, Enoch, the good criminal beside Jesus, were they enter the Heaven? If some one answer that they were not enters the Heaven, you'd better move to other religion. ......

See, who baptize them? Was there someone? Find it in the Bible till your head getting bold. Then if you find a bible said that Moses, Elijah, David, Samuel etc been baptized, quickly burn that bible, it must be Aunt Lucy (fer)'s

It's not the time to discuss those matters anymore. Remember Jesus will come soon. It's a pity if He comes but still sees His children quarrelling/ debating about baptizing, just like no other thing/ work can be done.

At last, a letter from Paul about baptizing

Heb 6: 1 - 3, GNB

Heb 6:1 Let us go forward, then, to mature teaching and leave behind us the first lessons of the Christian message. We should not lay again the foundation of turning away from useless works and believing in God;

Heb 6:2 of the teaching about baptisms and the laying on of hands; of the resurrection of the dead and the eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 Let us go forward! And this is what we will do, if God allows.

Don't you feel ashamed, priest who teach kindergarten lessons merely to their community?
How can the community take progress if the people like to suckle in the church, feeding milk?

If the priest behaves like kindergarten kids, the community will be like a playgroup kids. Why milk? There's the verse

1 Cor 3:2

"I had to feed you milk, not solid food, because you were not ready for it.

And even now you are not ready for it,"

Finally, Heaven’s message (Ef 4: 3 - 6)

Eph 4:3 Do your best to preserve the unity which the Spirit gives by means of
the peace that binds you together.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as there is one hope to which God has called you.
Eph 4:5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Eph 4:6 there is one God and Father of all people, who is Lord of all,
works through all, and is in all.

Jesus will judge what we've done, not the kind of our baptizing

Article in Indonesia

TRADITIONAL VS CHARISMATIC CHURCH ( 2 )

In the first chapter I review about the people from charismatic church said that traditional church doesn't have Holy Spirit. It's a big mistake to accuse traditional church which is aged more than a century ( even older than the age of Indonesia ) which had a great share in spreading the Gospel in Indonesia ( even before charismatic movement circulate in Indonesia) as a church without Holy Spirit.

But obviously in traditional church itself is found a fatal mistake, in which many people of traditional church regards charismatic as

- IT IS COME FROM SATAN, NOT FROM HOLY SPIRIT

Well, if it is come from Satan, how come Satan drive out Satan? Such as said

Luk 11:15 GNB :
" But some of the people said ". It is Beelzebul, the chief of the demons,
who gives him the power to drive them out".

And Jesus answered

Luk 11:18-19 GNB :
" So if satan's kingdom has groups fighting each other, how can it last? You say that I drive out demons because Beelzebul gives me the power to do so. If this is how I drive them out, how do your followers drive them out? Your own followers prove that you are wrong!"

Well, it's clear, right? Is the traditional church people accusation same with the Pharisee accusation to Jesus, precisely? How come we could find similarity? Isn't that exciting? The accusation from 2000 years ago heard again 2000 years later. There are some accusations from traditional church say:

'A strange tongue in charismatic church comes from Satan'.

Has this people ever read the Bible or not? No, no..... Don't read the Bible of Jude or Barnabas Gospel which is made a fuss by Lucifer follower and our opposition brother. You are wrong, Pal!! Read the Bible of LAI (Indonesia Bible Society) edition or more impressing read the original version of Greek.

But if you can read only Batak language or Javanese or another language in Indonesia they are available: an official Bible in many languages. If you want to know clearly go into LAI or SABDA sites. Or if you want to see Bible of many version from Hebrew era till satellite era just look at e-sword sites.

Ever read this verse?

Act 19:6 GNB:
" Paul places his hands on them, and the Holy Spirit came upon them; they
spoke in strange tongues and also proclaimed God's message".

Or this verse

1 Cor 12:8-11 GNB:
"1Co 12:8 The Spirit gives one person a message full of wisdom,
while to another person the same Spirit gives a message full of knowledge.

1Co 12:9 One and the same Spirit gives faith to one person,
while to another person he gives the power to heal.

1Co 12:10 The Spirit gives one person the power to work miracles; to another, the gift of speaking God's message; and to yet another, the ability to tell the difference between gifts that come from the Spirit and those that do not. To one person he gives the ability to speak in strange tongues, and to another he gives the ability to explain what is said.

1Co 12:11 But it is one and the same Spirit who does all this; as he wishes,
he gives a different gift to each person. ".

Or this verse

1 Cor 12:28 GNB :
"In the church God has put all in place: in the first place apostles, in the second place prophets, and in the third place teachers; then those who perform miracles, followed by those who are given the power to heal or to help others or to direct them or to speak in strange tongues".

Have you read? Not yet, hmmm.... it's ok. From now on please read the Bible, would you? Don't listen to the preaching from your pastor only. It's good, if he is true. What about if the pastor come from deviating stream flow (ideology)

My loving brother/ sister don't worry for everything had happened. From now on try to understand each other. The author knows & realizes that there are some cases in which people speak with strange tongues, apparently not comes from the Holy Spirit but from deviating Spirit.

And for brothers of charismatic, don't be proud if you speak in strange tongues, because some retarded tribes in Africa when they do their ritual ceremony, they speak with 'strange tongues'. But this strange tongue comes from Aunt Lucy (fer).

Let's say for these two church communities “Put all things to the test ", asks God, don't trust anybody but GOD.

Oh brothers/ sisters, God loves all of us. We are special to be adopted as 'God's children', not because our flesh/ blood nor our good deed, but because the sacrifice of JESUS on the Cross.

Are you and I going to crucify Jesus for the second time?

Jesus loves all churches in the world

Article in Indonesia

CHARISMATIC VS TRADITIONAL CHURCH ( I )

Recently Charismatic movement is incessantly. Charismatic which is come from Pentecost propagation is become more interested by Christian community, because it use more energetic and inspiring liturgy and use Holy Spirit gifts more in church.

While traditional church doesn't have significance development from time to time, with the result that Christian from traditional church moves to charismatic church. This movement is not a problem, because everyone has the right to choose a place in where they can go to worship.

The problem is, recently an offended bad image of traditional church circulating in charismatic community, i.e.:
"Traditional church doesn't have Holy Spirit"

This word is hurting traditional church community, because by stamping/labeling 'No Holy Spirit' is same with treating traditional church same as Satan’s church. Because no Holy Spirit, no God, means Satan is presence.

Well, so Indonesia people who were preached become Christian before charismatic is presence, who is confessed already that Jesus is God, comes from where......? Is it come from Satan?

Oh please charismatic people use your brain, who does the mission in Indonesia along this time? Are you who claimed as charismatic people? Do you know the age of traditional church like HKBP (Huria Kristen Batak Protestan) you humiliate this church doesn't have Holy Spirit? They are 146 years old. Were there charismatic people during that time?
AND THEN... WHEN DO CHARISMATIC PEOPLE SPREAD THE GOSPEL? ARE CHARISMATIC SPREAD THE GOSPEL ALL THIS TIME?

GPIB is 59 years old, which name previously ' De Protestantse Kerk in Westelijk Indonesie'. There are some old traditional churches share great contributions in spreading Christian religion in Indonesia.

So, use your brain when you speak, don't use your knee to think. You must be forgetting if your grandpa/ grandma, opa/oma, ompung, eyang, mbah, aki etc, grew from traditional church.

Or are you the infidel/ unbeliever who become a Christian? Or maybe you come from Satan church who intended to break Christian in Indonesia into many pieces?

As written at this verse

Jude 1:19 :
"These are the people who cause divisions, who are controlled by their natural desires,
who do not have the Spirit.”

Do you know the Bible verse says

1 Cor 12:3:
"I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!"
And no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Holy Spirit".

The author at this time is going to charismatic church, but since baby up till knowing Jesus personally the author went to traditional church. What the author sees recently is: there are troublemakers in church who are trying to break Christian both in traditional and charismatic church.

Actually going to any church is just same because the Bible says "Though we are many; but we are one body". So try from right now not to judge the church which is not same with yours.

Just begin your life knowing Jesus personally, be diligent to read the Bible and memorize it, and also become an intercessor for God. Let traditional church go with its way/ liturgy, so charismatic church does,

because the Bible says in:

Psalm 53:2-3:

"Psa 53:2 God looks down from heaven at people to see
if there are any who are wise, any who worship him.

Psa 53:3 But they have all turned away; they are all equally bad.
Not one of them does what is right, not a single one. ".

And the Bible continue with the Word

1 John 1:8 :
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us."

Well, brothers & sisters, we are all sinner. Thank God, Jesus had redeemed us of our sins. So stop considers us or our group or our church better than the others. Let God judges when the time is coming, whether you and I are right or wrong before Him?

To Be Continued to Chapter TWO

Jesus loves you and your family

Article in Indonesia